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Other People Complicate Things

I'll just let the chat log speak for itself again, because while I do have more energy to actually write about these things than before, it's easier to say (without using words) "read this, follow the conversation, and comments will be made afterward". For context though, the following concerns plans for August, and starts last night just after I laid down in bed. I opened my laptop one last time to try to find where a bit of text (cpasbien) that was stuck in my head came from, then noticed a new chat window open, and just had to respond then.


(6:26:54am) Dan Skunk: Darnit... I wanted to talk to you but I fell asleep.
Karadur: Oh, I'm sort of here
Karadur: Want to go to sleep, but am copying files to a USB stick, and the copying stops if I close my laptop...
Karadur: (is kind of convoluted, but 14 minutes to go~)
Karadur: Just opened my eyes again because I want to search Google to figure out where I saw "cpasbien" at, because I know I saw it recently, but can't remember where...
Karadur: What did you want to talk about though?
Dan Skunk: We were talking about going to Wonderland when you visited. Was wondering what you though of having a furmeet there on the Sunday or Monday after the meet in the party room.
Dan Skunk: I'm trying to think of other things for people to do the next day.
Karadur: I am theoretically fine with it (although Monday would probably be better), but would still like to go there as a small group (that is, you, Xion, Chris, and I), if they want to come
Karadur: If I may, did the group trip there that was being planned for July fall through?
Dan Skunk: Oh... Nothing fell though, I just know there will be people visiting from Ottawa, and though since it's a long weekend, it might be nice to have something else to do the Sunday and Monday.
Dan Skunk: I can still go any time.
Karadur: Thinking... The one thing I know I want to say is that I don't want to commit to going on a certain day, only to have something get in the way of that...
Dan Skunk: I just didn't want to ruin plans with you if I went another day.
Karadur: Did they specifically say that they want to do something on *both* Sunday and Monday after the meet?
Dan Skunk: No one said that. I've just been thinking of something to do. A number of times, something has been done on the Sunday too.
Karadur: *nod* I remember the dinner on Sunday before
Karadur: I don't expect you to answer this, but I asked Mary for the 31st to 11th off, right?
Dan Skunk: That's a lot of time.
Karadur: It is, but it made sense at the time, and still does. I'm just trying to think through something related...
Karadur: I was going to propose (however unlikely) going there as a group on Monday, and then again on our own at some point after that, but if we do take a day between each big activity, the only day left would be Friday, and I go back home on Saturday...
Dan Skunk: Well, if you're not going to be upset by it, I'll ask people if they'd want to go to Wonderland the day after the meet.
Karadur: I was just getting there...
Karadur: Sunday would work for that, provided the party room gets cleaned up in about the same amount of time as it did in May - a couple hours, instead of taking 'til ~5am like in February. If that does end up happening though, how do you feel about the idea - just the idea - of going again as just the two to four of us at a later date that week?
Karadur: Money would be the biggest issue, I think...
Dan Skunk: I still have no problems with going on another day too.
Dan Skunk: If the room gets cleaning up fairly quickly, like last time, I think we could get to Wonderland for noon.
Dan Skunk: If we did it the very next day.
Karadur: Do you remember what time we got there before? I just remember we woke up at ~8am...
Dan Skunk: If we got up at 8am, we probably got there around 10am.
Dan Skunk: 10am would be when it opens.
Karadur: Alright. Then if we get up at 10am, we should be there for noon?
Dan Skunk: Yeah.
Dan Skunk: I'm trying to decide of Sunday or Monday would be better for it.
Karadur: Sunday has my vote, provided something smaller (if anything at all) is planned for Monday
Karadur: I do of course reserve the right to say "No, I'm not going. I'll wait for later this week" on the day of the group trip, if I'm too tired or whatever, but one-off things like that usually aren't a problem, so we'll see...
Dan Skunk: Could go to the zoo on Monday.
Dan Skunk: Oh... Yeah, if you don't want to go, that would be fine too.
Dan Skunk: Monday would be a holiday, is all.
Karadur: Well, be careful of how you read that. What I mean is that while I do retain the right to say "I don't want to go today", if I say that, it will come with an unspoken addition of "So I do want to go later this week"
Karadur: Probably busier on Monday then...
Dan Skunk: Hard to say, could be just as busier on Sunday before the holiday too. Or people might take trips away from the city more too.
Karadur: *shrug* I'll go with the stance that says the whole weekend will be busy, since it's a long weekend
Karadur: In short though, yes, I think I am up for that. Wonderland with a group on either Sunday or Monday, zoo on Monday or Tuesday, and possible second trip to Wonderland on Wednesday or Thursday
Dan Skunk: Sure, that's all good.
Dan Skunk: Any other days, I'm find with doing anything. Just wanted to try and find things for people to do who are coming from far away.
Karadur: If I may sound just a little pointed, I did book a fair stretch of time off from work, but that doesn't mean I constantly want to be doing something. One day with nothing specific planned before Friday would be nice as well
Karadur: *nod* that's understandable
Dan Skunk: Of course. Just the weekend I'm thinking about for group stuff. Couple days before it, being a little busy working on things for the meet, probably.
Dan Skunk: Rest of the week, nothing planned, whatever you want to do is fine.
Karadur: I'll be busy with my own preparations too, so I know what you mean there
Karadur: To clarify (for my sake) then
Karadur: You just said "Rest of the week, nothing planned, whatever you want to do is fine." Is "Rest of the week" defined as Monday or Tuesday through Friday?
Karadur: Technically Saturday as well, but it's a bit more difficult to plan things for then *shrug*
Dan Skunk: Tuesday through Friday.
Dan Skunk: Since it's a long weekend, I was including Monday.
Dan Skunk: Though, if I do Wonderland on Sunday, that might be big enough to not bother doing anything on Monday.
Karadur: ...alright. One more question then, to possibly allow for a little leeway...
Karadur: Depending on how plans come together between now and the end of the month (if they do any more than they are now) would you mind me asking Mary for the 12th off as well?
Karadur: I apologize if I sound selfish in any of this :s
Dan Skunk: Oh. No. I don't mind that at all.
Dan Skunk: I just worry about you taking too much time off.
Karadur: I'm kind of concerned about that too, but given her indifference to my initial request, I can't see her minding that addition
Karadur: I just wanted to know so that depending on how this comes together, I can maybe have an extra day to work with
Karadur: Could you say if you will have any more of an idea what will be going on by the end of the month?
Dan Skunk: I don't have anything planned untill later in August.
Dan Skunk: Well, can't say for sure right now, but I would try to get it done by the end of the month.
Karadur: You may not have plans, but all the same, I don't want to overstay my welcome purely for the sake of being able to do everything I want to. As such, I'm fine with asking for one day, but two or more? We would have to have solid plans / reasons for that, and it would still feel awkward anyway *shrug*
Dan Skunk: Naw. You wouldn't be overstaying your welcome.
Dan Skunk: At least 3 of those days, I'll just be busy with the party anyway.
Karadur: *nod* I will still gladly offer my help as well, and will have cookies to make and such, so that will keep be busy too
Karadur: And I didn't mean to say I was hoping for you to know exactly what will be going on by the end of the month. I'd just like to have a general idea of who's in favor of doing what when. If you wouldn't be able to answer that either, that's fine too. I'd just err on the side of caution and ask Mary if I could have the 12th off as well
Dan Skunk: Oh. Alright.
Karadur: I imagine if worse comes to worse, there ends up being a day where we just sit around doing nothing, and I get bored and go out to the mall like before *shrug*
Karadur: At any rate, I need to get to sleep now, because copying finished some minutes ago :B
Dan Skunk: Well, I won't be home sick or going to the hospital this time, so will be available to do stuff with you.
Karadur: Oh, no, there was that night back in December when I said I was going out to Taco Bell, Dollarama, and Shoppers, I think, and you said you would come with me, but were feeling tired, so you were going to stay at home
Dan Skunk: Ok. You want to do stuff alone too then?
Karadur: ...we'll see. It all depends on the day, and what I feel like doing *shrug*
Karadur: I like doing things with you, but I like going out on my own from time to time as well. That's all there is to it
Dan Skunk: Ok. :3
Karadur: ...I was going to say that I might try to explain that in more detail at a later date, but we'll see about that too. Right now, I am off to bed, so I'll talk to you later. Maybe tonight, because I don't work, but George is supposed to be coming over as well, so yes... We'll just see what happens~
Karadur: I can't tell you to have a good sleep in this case, so have a good day, and that will be that (for now) :3
Dan Skunk: Ok. Later. :3


Following this, I went to bed. I did so feeling stressed, and worried about what would happen if that Sunday came, and I opted to stay at the apartment. Unless I found something to completely throw myself into, I would be utterly consumed by resentment (and as a side effect, depression) by the time he came back, and would want only to go back home. I did feel while we were talking that what I told him was true (that I was fine with going to Wonderland as part of a large group on Sunday), but the feelings of anger and sadness I both went to bed with and woke up to said otherwise. I'm not opposed to doing things with a big group of people as such. I'm opposed to not being able to do something I want to because of people I'll probably never meet outside of those events.


(2:03:43pm) Karadur: I've a question for you now, if I may, that is probably going to sound entitled and self-centered (but hopefully reasonably fair at the same time)...
(2:20:39pm) Dan Skunk has become idle.
Karadur: ...oh. Perhaps you will be back later?
(2:24:06pm) Dan Skunk is no longer idle.
Dan Skunk: I'm here now.
Dan Skunk: I think I'll probably leave Wonderland for July, and just go with you in August.
Karadur: Well, I just had another thought about that. It's a slightly more radical idea, but all the same, let me know what you think of this...
Karadur: Your plans for going to stay at the cottage aren't until the end of the month, right?
Karadur: Back in a moment. Need to do something on my other laptop
Karadur: I must ask you to hear me out before you make a decision though...
Dan Skunk: Alright.
Karadur: Same as above then, are your plans still not until the end of the month?
Dan Skunk: Everything is for July and August.
Karadur: Oh, no, I mean your plans for going to the cottage and such. Not furmeet-related activities
Dan Skunk: No. nothing furmeet related.
Dan Skunk: Just going to a cottage with friends.
Karadur: *nod* and is that still at the end of the month? I remember you saying it was before, but want to be sure
Dan Skunk: Yeah, all right at the end.
Dan Skunk: Like just the whole last week, I think.
Karadur: So then (and this is the presumptuous bit), let's assume neither Mary or I would have problems with the following. How would *you* feel about pushing the entire affair with me having another visit planned up a week? Have it start on the 7th, instead. I want to explain why I prefer that alternative before you respond though
Karadur: a] Sunday and Monday after the furmeet are left free for any plans you want to make with the people who will be visiting from Ottawa. b] It eliminates the nonsense of me being there for the furmeet, but not being sure if I'll take part. c] I can save some money on groceries. d] Lastly, the end of the visit could be brought back a couple days, so I wouldn't be taking as much time off work
Dan Skunk: That's all fine if you want. You don't really have to buy more groceries though.
Karadur: Well, what I meant by that is...
Karadur: That if I won't be there for the furmeet, I don't have to buy nearly as many baking supplies. I'm not saying that in a bad way though. I don't mind the idea of not being there for the furmeet, because it seems a bit silly to want to be there while it's going on, but not knowing if I'll actually take part in it
Dan Skunk: I know. I mean you don't need to buy cookies for the furmeet.
Karadur: Don't need to, no, but I still like to contribute~
Karadur: Back in another moment, for the same reason as before
Karadur: You're alright with that then, though? I just really really *really* don't want to be an imposition in the sense that you'll cancel plans with people who are there from far away just because I wanted to go with a smaller group. I am completely fine with the idea of pushing it back a week. Would just be a matter of talking it over with Mary
Karadur: I would still take the early train there though. That is absolutely not open to negotiation <3
Dan Skunk: Yeah. It's all no problem.
Dan Skunk: I did already suggest you come a week without the furmeet.
Dan Skunk: Since you weren't sure you wanted to be there.
Karadur: I'm not sure I remember that, but yeah, that's more or less true
Dan Skunk: You seemed insistant on coming when the meet was happening.
Karadur: I was, because I still wanted to help out with it. Between this conversation and the one we had last night / earlier this morning though, it's become clear that it will be easier to everybody involved if my plans start on the 7th instead
Karadur: And no, there is no implied resentment there :s
Dan Skunk: I wouldn't say it's easier, just that I'd be busy with the furmeet for probably a couple days before and the day of.
Dan Skunk: You said you didn't mind 'cause you'd help with it.
Karadur: I still feel that way, yes
Karadur: I never meant to sound like I was upset over that you'd be busy planning the furmeet even though I was there. I fully understand that you have things to coordinate and preparation to make
Karadur: Simply put, I don't expect you to always be there for me when I'm there. That would be silly
Dan Skunk: You didn't sound upset. Since I invited you to just come another time too if you didn't want to be involved with that so I'd have more time with you.
Dan Skunk: If you came on the 7th, I'd be free the whole time and not doing much, probably.
Dan Skunk: I could spend the whole time with you.
Karadur: *nod* that's why I would prefer it. And even if you do make plans with the people from Ottawa on both Sunday and Monday, Tuesday will only be grocery shopping day, so nothing too strenuous
Karadur: (I will still make cookies and things even if I'm not there for the furmeet <3)
Dan Skunk: Alright. Well, it's up to you what you want to do.
Dan Skunk: :3
Karadur: *nod* I'm not sure if Mary's in before Friday, but I'll try to ask her about that as soon as possible
Dan Skunk: Ok.
Karadur: Can I assume that means you will be making plans for Sunday and Monday after the furmeet then? If your answer is yes, it would probably be better to plan to go there on our own on the weekend, since it's open 'til 11 then...
Dan Skunk: Still just thinking about it now.
Dan Skunk: Want to talk to a couple people and see if they want to do something.
Karadur: ...George said he would be over around 3. He is late ;_;
Dan Skunk: :/
Dan Skunk: I want to go out for a walk.
Karadur: Alright. Have fun :3
Dan Skunk: Thanks. :3
(3:31:23pm) Dan Skunk has become idle.
Karadur: I will try to explain what I meant last night when I said I want to do things on my own as well, but not until later, because George just called, and he is on his way now~
(3:57:00pm) Dan Skunk is no longer idle.
Dan Skunk: Ok.
(5:48:08pm) Dan Skunk has become idle.
(5:49:31pm) Dan Skunk is no longer idle.
(5:55:30pm) Dan Skunk has become idle.
(6:10:34pm) Dan Skunk is no longer idle.
Karadur: Well that was fun :3 Went out to 7-11 for ice cream, talked about various things, and gave him a bunch of downloading-related updates~
Dan Skunk: Hmm. :3
Karadur: I've thought of a good way to put my remaining concern regarding plans for August into words as well
Karadur: I don't mind asking Mary if I can push it ahead a week, but I don't want to have to make additional requests after that
Karadur: I probably won't be able to describe this as well, but the thing holding me back from just going for that is that if the other people you'll have visiting from Ottawa *don't* want to do anything on Sunday or Monday, then I might as well be there for the 31st to 11th. I don't specifically want to be an active part of the furmeet, but if nothing else was holding me back from contributing to it, I would rather be there for the aforementioned stretch of time, because it would be one more thing to do
Dan Skunk: Well, if it's a problem for people I won't do anything on Sunday or Monday.
Dan Skunk: I could just rest on those days instead.
Karadur: *nod* I'm now trying to think of what else we could do if I did ask to push my time off up a week...
Dan Skunk: That's why I was asking you if you'd be ok with doing more on Sunday and Monday. If you're not, I won't.
Karadur: Which dates are you referring to?
Karadur: The 5th and 6th, or 12th and 14th?
Dan Skunk: 5th and 6th.
Dan Skunk: If it's a problem for you, I don't have to.
Karadur: I think that's the dilmena for me too. I don't want it to be the sort of problem (for me) that makes you cancel plans that you have, which is why I think right now that if other people want to do things on the 5th and the 6th, I would be better off asking for time off starting on the 7th instead, but if they don't, I don't mind making plans for then, so long as Tuesday or Wednesday is taken to rest
Karadur: It kind of feels like we're each working towards the other's benefit, and aren't really getting anywhere as a result <3
Dan Skunk: I had no plans, it was just an idea for me.
Dan Skunk: But I didn't want it to be something that messed existing plans, like you visiting.
Karadur: It hasn't yet messed that up though
Dan Skunk: What you think if we go half way, say I might do something on Sunday, but nothing on Monday?
Karadur: ...let me think about that...
Karadur: I think that would work, but with one condition...
Karadur: Next time I see Mary, I will ask her how long I have to request changes to the time I previously asked to have off. That way, hopefully by the time the deadline rolls around, there will be even just a sliver more of plans for activities following the furmeet, and I can make a final decision then
Dan Skunk: Sure, if you want.
Dan Skunk: We could make whatever it is, not be Wonderland.
Karadur: We could, but I don't want Wonderland to be ruled out because I want to go there with just the two to four of us
Karadur: Maybe people want to go out for dinner again on Sunday. I would be up for that, but if it's a fursuit walk like they made plans for before, then no, I'll sit that out *shrug*
Dan Skunk: I was considering Bowling originally.
Karadur: Oh, bowling would work
Dan Skunk: Bowlerama isn't far away, and we wouldn't stay all day.
Karadur: Could go out for supper after as well, if people are interested. Not saying that that's what should happen, but it could
Karadur: I'll be back in a minute. I'm not too hungry right now, so these hamburgers can be put in the fridge for later~
Dan Skunk: Could. I was thinking of going out on Friday night for dinner, Maybe sushi or maybe just pizza.
Karadur: *nod* that would work too. I've never had sushi though...
Dan Skunk: Not alergic to seafood, right?
Karadur: Not as far as I know. I've eaten fish plenty of times, with no apparent ill effects
Dan Skunk: Shrimp?
Karadur: Yes
Karadur: That is what I had for supper when we went to that seafood place back in February, I think <3
Dan Skunk: Ok. So no asploding from shellfish.
Karadur: Hopefully not :B
Karadur: I worry that this question sounds presumptuous as well, but will there be any more people in the apartment before / after the furmeet than before? Last time, Peromyscus was there the night before and night / afternoon the next day after, as well as that other person from the meet who needed a place to sleep...
Dan Skunk: Pero would probably be here, and I invited one other.
Karadur: Alright. It sounded like everybody would be staying there, and that might be too crowded :x
Dan Skunk: No. I wouldn't crowd it.
Dan Skunk: And I'm not inviting anyone to sleep on your bed.
Karadur: Well, technically it's not my bed, but I appreciate that all the same. I would share it with you if the space was needed though
Dan Skunk: I'd ask you that ahead of time.
Karadur: I think that's fair for now though. I'll ask Mary about time left for making changes as soon as possible. Further to that, assuming plans go through for the 31st to 11th, same as before, I will still probably ask to add the 12th on, to be safe
Dan Skunk: Ok.


I really do feel this is fair for now. I should be able to talk to Mary by Friday at latest, and when I do, I'll ask how much time I have (if any) before it's too late to ask for changes to be made to my previous time off request. If she gives me a deadline, then I have until then to hope Dan is able to get in touch with these people from Ottawa and ask if they would like to do anything the day after the furmeet. If he doesn't hear back from them before that point, or they do reply to him saying that they want to do something on both Sunday and Monday, I'll ask for my time off to be pushed up exactly one week. Otherwise (they reply to say that sure, doing something on Sunday would be fun, and there's no need to go out on Monday as well, then I'll only ask to have the 12th off as well. That way, we can still go to Wonderland on our own, and have enough time in between to not be rushed.

Complicated, yes? The benefits of going there on the 7th still apply, but leaving Chatham on the 31st would still offer just enough to do, whereas pushing my plans up a week might leave too much free time. On the better side of things though, I think I'm onto something with putting pillows in my windows, for one. Quite fittingly, I got only ~6 hours of sleep again last night, because I didn't get to bed until after 7, but I then slept straight through until when I woke up. George came over today as well, as mentioned above, but really, him being here wasn't all that remarkable this time. I put a bunch of stuff on his external drive, we went to 7-11, he showed me the laptop he bought last week (he says mine is better than his, but his has 6GB of RAM, while mine has 4...), we talked about a few things, and then he went home. It was decided that I will still continue to download episodes of TV shows for him, because he isn't yet going anywhere, and I also told him about something that happened at work tonight, which I still find kind of amusing. Around 1:00, Laura told me that she wanted to go out to Tim Hortons and didn't mind getting something for me, but didn't want to get anything for Tom, because he just assumes he'll get something for free. Not really thinking about my answer, I told her that if he asked, she could just say that I had given her money, and off she went to the back, while I continued my work. I quickly remembered that last weekend, she bought me a bottle of juice without any hinting or prompting whatsoever (I wasn't expecting to get anything from anybody, in other words), so I hurried to the back myself, and gave her $10, saying that I did owe her something, so she could buy the bagel she wanted with that, and the peach juice that I had asked for as well. She refused first, then took it, saying that she'd had a "blonde moment", then there was an order, so I made it while she went out, and I was left feeling kind of conflicted for a bit, because I didn't completely want to give that money away, but knew it was the fair thing to do as well. Then she came back, and gave the $10 right back to me, brushing it off by saying she didn't mind. After that, I started to sweep, because the floor was dirty and it was bothering me. When she came back up front and saw that, she said "See, this is why I don't mind buying something for you - because you help me". To be perfectly straight about it, I wasn't sweeping the floor specifically to help her. The floor needed to be swept though, and she took my sweeping part of it as helping her, so whatever. I'm fine with that assumption. When I told the story to George this afternoon, his first comment was "She likes you", and then "Maybe she doesn't like Tom". That could be, because she did make another obviously not-serious remark that she was going to beg Mary to put me back on Sunday closes, but it's the dynamics that I find interesting. I don't knowingly do anything to make people like or dislike me. The most forward I get with the way I act (certain exceptions aside) is to get the point across that work comes first, and relaxing comes second. I suppose that's what people might like though, but it honestly doesn't occur to me. It's kind of nice, in a way...

That said, I want to have a shower now, then there's a whole night off waiting for me. I think I should clean up my desktop first. I'm nearly on to two columns of files...

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